22 replies to this topic

[thescot]

As you know i manufacture some drip tips, mods and tanks. When i done my first drip tips i was obviously looking for the cheapest but also best looking material. I chose cheap steel and wanted it chrome plated. The manufacturing place i use asked what the parts were for and when i mentioned mouthpieces etc a strange look came on his face and he tried to tell me in his best broken English ''no good'' After searching i realised only then that Hexavalent chromium is one of the cheapest and most common materials used in the chroming process. After many google searches i decided that 300 series stainless steel was the only metal to use safely with my tanks and completely gave up on anything chrome plated to come in contact with juice.The Erin Brockovich movie came to mind and just thought i would pass this on for those who may not be aware of the possible dangers with chrome plated materials being ingested regardless of how shiny they look. The use of aluminium being in contact with juice has been discussed in the forum before but not chrome and i just thought i would get my view on this across without wanting to scare anyone.

Edited by thescot, 24 January 2012 - 06:58 AM.

[Cyberpixie]

Why is it no good though?

[thescot]

Cyber, try copying this to google and you'll see - Hexavalent chromium
Its not really something you want to be using to store juice in like a tank if you have a choice.
Just my opinion but people are free to do as they wish it was just something i thought of passing on.

[Cyberpixie]

Aah, respiratory irritant and carcinogenic. It also said something about stainless steel, I thought that was safe, I'm guessing they mean if they plate it with chrome. Hmmm, I have numerous chrome drip tips although my lil mama tank caps are stainless steel I believe. From what I read, it seems to be more when it's heated up such as when making anything chrome plated but I've only taken a couple of mins to look.
Thanks for the heads up.

[scanbran]

Hmm...I'm using a chrome drip tip as I read this. I'd like to know more (...dashes off to googleland).

[nosmo]

Just seen the new TW carto tanks have got a chrome drip tip and chrome end caps!

http://www.totallywi...-2-product.html

[thescot]

I seen similar pics from cigtechs the supplier of the mantis mod last month. He said they were from smoktech and were SS end caps?
Maybe they use the safer method for chroming the tank end caps and nothing to worry about.

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[vogel]

Chromes for putting on motorbike and car parts. not for sticking in your mouth.

[grizewald]

The chrome was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw those tanks and
mouthpieces but I got the impression that once the chrome was actually plated
there was no risk. Did I misunderstand?

[vogel]

with the new tanks we are doing we did think about using the idusrtial polisher i have to polish the stainless steel, but thought better of it as i would have to get the soap off the steel before it could be used. so wet and dry it is. nothing left behind to affect the taste or any form of chemical reaction.

Edited by vogel, 24 January 2012 - 03:09 PM.

[silentoZ]

not sure wat all the fuss is about well i say that because i swallowed a chrome nut of 1 of me bikes once no harm was done well apart from the fact i had to wait 2 days till i got it back to put back on the side pannell but there most likely is some factors i do be unaware of n probly would of went to docs if id known some of the stuff iv read l8tly on chrome...

Edited by silentoZ, 24 January 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[Harlequin69]

From my admittedly small amount of research it does not appear that Chrome in and of itself is actually harmful. Compounds made of chrome have different properties ie Chrome VI (Hexavalent Chromium) is used in many industrial processes including chrome plating and is characterised as carcinogenic and mutagenic not very nice for you. Chrome plating is metallic chrome ie a layer of the element itself and not a compound.


Wiki quote

Quote

In 2007, a Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive (RoHS) was issued banning several toxic substances for use in the automotive industry in Europe, including hexavalent chromium, which is used in chrome plating. However, chrome plating is metal and contains no hexavalent chromium after it is rinsed, so chrome plating is not banned.

Edit: Just to mention chrome plating is used on some griddles/hot plates and food processing machinery for its corrosion resistance and ease of cleaning.

Edited by Harlequin69, 24 January 2012 - 10:48 PM.

[MacCumhail]

It seems there are different types of chrome plating from reading this page

http://www.myfen.com...ated-goods-safe

I would expect that some of the vendors will be pitching up here soon with some evidence of the due diligence they carried out before selling us chrome plated products.

A big thanks to The Scot for bringing this to our attention.

Edited by MacCumhail, 24 January 2012 - 11:36 PM.

[tyefighter]

thescot, on 24 January 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

I seen similar pics from cigtechs the supplier of the mantis mod last month. He said they were from smoktech and were SS end caps?
Maybe they use the safer method for chroming the tank end caps and nothing to worry about.

i got one of these tanks from madvapes... they seem to be the delrin caps with a chrome coating... much like the stuff they use for chrome effect on plastic toys smoktech tanks

Edited by tyefighter, 25 January 2012 - 12:02 AM.

[Harlequin69]

MacCumhail, on 24 January 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

It seems there are different types of chrome plating from reading this page

http://www.myfen.com...ated-goods-safe

I would expect that some of the vendors will be pitching up here soon with some evidence of the due diligence they carried out before selling us chrome plated products.

A big thanks to The Scot for bringing this to our attention.

Good find. It appears that the chromate conversion process does leave non inert chromium behind but it is not the standard chrome plating method.

Wiki link

Quote

Chromate conversion coatings are common on everyday items such as hardware and tools and usually have a distinctive yellow color.

Ally would most likely be the base metal under the coatings due to its cost and this process would leave it yellow/gold.
It seems that the only chromate coating that would be clear is coated zinc and even then it would take on a blueish colour at low thickness's.
This method cannot be applied directly to steel or iron and would require an additional unneeded step in manufacture of our kit.


Certainly an interesting topic and not something I have really explored before this thread. Questioning is good as it leads to answers the more we know the better


Edit: Tye that is silver plastic or paint another area entirely to look into but given its prevalence in certified safe children's toys my gut feeling is that there is not problem there

Edited by Harlequin69, 25 January 2012 - 12:03 AM.

[thescot]

I didn't go into depth too much just one of my manufacturing guys telling me no good. He might be referring to what he knows about his folks handling and working with the raw materials which may be where the dangers lie. After plating it might actually be safe to use but China doesn't have the best record when it comes to worrying about the health and safety of others..

[Harlequin69]

thescot, on 25 January 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

I didn't go into depth too much just one of my manufacturing guys telling me no good. He might be referring to what he knows about his folks handling and working with the raw materials which may be where the dangers lie. After plating it might actually be safe to use but China doesn't have the best record when it comes to worrying about the health and safety of others..

You did good mate hexavalent chrome is nasty stuff and there has been quite a lot of concern over workers around this stuff especially in places like China where as you say they don't exactly care as much as they should do about their staff sometimes. It is/was a concern and was worth exploring From what I have seen and I only spent an hour or so looking into it there isn't likely to be any problems as far as we are concerned.

Your choice in using stainless is better anyway IMO much prefer it over any plating chrome or otherwise

[Phil A]

I found an interesting article about Chromium here

in particular, this bit

Quote

The health hazards associated with exposure to chromium are dependent on its oxidation state. The metal form (chromium as it exists in this product) is of low toxicity. The hexavalent form is toxic. Adverse effects of the hexavalent form on the skin may include ulcerations, dermatitis, and allergic skin reactions. Inhalation of hexavalent chromium compounds can result in ulceration and perforation of the mucous membranes of the nasal septum, irritation of the pharynx and larynx, asthmatic bronchitis, bronchospasms and edema. Respiratory symptoms may include coughing and wheezing, shortness of breath, and nasal itch.
Carcinogenicity- Chromium and most trivalent chromium compounds have been listed by the National Toxicology Program (NTP) as having inadequate evidence for carcinogenicity in experimental animals. According to NTP, there is sufficient evidence for carcinogenicity in experimental animals for the following hexavalent chromium compounds; calcium chromate, chromium trioxide, leadchromate, strontium chromate,and zinc chromate. International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has listed chromium metal and its trivalent compounds within Group 3 (The agent is not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans.) Chromium is not regulated as a carcinogen by OSHA (29 CFR 1910 Subpart Z). ACGIH has classified chromium metal and trivalent chromium compounds as A4,not classifiable as a human carcinogen.


Read more: http://www.lenntech....m#ixzz1kTVcn7aK

So, it seems Chromium isn't poisonous in it's natural state, but can be very dangerous if / when it oxidises and the production process can be extremely hazardous to workers

Edited by Phil A, 25 January 2012 - 01:09 PM.

[Harlequin69]

Phil A, on 25 January 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

So, it seems Chromium isn't poisonous in it's natural state, but can be very dangerous if / when it oxidises and the production process can be extremely hazardous to workers

Not all oxides/compounds of Chromium are hazardous in fact Chromium (III) is actually used by our bodies. In this particular subject we need to be specific about what we are saying otherwise we can cause undue worry without actually having evidence to back it up. Right now I am looking for information regarding the oxide that forms on metallic chrome as that is the compound we will be exposed to when we use standard chrome plated materials. The evidence I have seen so far suggests it is non toxic and in fact if it isn't then there is a whole lot of people making/using products that are harmful. For example some cutlery is chrome plated and as I said before it is used by some manufacturers on hot plates our taps are often chrome plated it's all over the place we surely cannot be the only group that has thought about doing risk assessments on it.

[grizewald]

That's quite reassuring, thanks for the research. Those tanks over at TW look
interesting, particularly as I can put juices that react with polycarbonate in them.