68 replies to this topic

[Harlequin69]

Lately I have been playing with Genesis style wicks in the RTA and while it works (and works well) there is a certain amount of faff involved regarding bending the mesh and wrapping the coil around it. The other issue I noticed was if you made a stonking coil often the wick wouldn't keep up. With this in mind I set about redesigning the RTA to produce an inverted genesis style atomiser.

The constraints I set for this project are as follows:

• Must be made from same materials as the RTA. (delrin, polycarb tube, ally tube, threaded rod and CE2 XL connector and air tube)
  
• Should be manufacturable by Clockworks
  
• Should require equal or less manufacturing time
  
• Minimise the amount of RTA components visible in the tank
  
• Maximise the capacity of the tank
  
• Allow use of pyrex for tank if possible
  
• Accomodate drip tips up to Siam Mods size (they have unusually long insert sections)
  
• Minimise volume of coil chamber and promote maximum airflow over coil.
  
• As tool-less as possible ie no posts.
  
• Probably a couple I have forgotten since I designed the model.

There has been some concern over using this style of wick with delrin and also having coils so close to the delrin but I do not believe it to be an issue. All the surfaces in the coil chamber are air cooled when you take a draw and delrin has a melting point of 175deg/C if you somehow manage to get even close to this, not really sure how you could without trying to, then you will be more worried about the burns in your mouth and throat than the delrin.

I present my concept for an RGA (Rebuildable Genesis Atomiser)

 Complete.jpg   28.36K   156 downloads

Refilling is possible by removing the top cap. The cap is designed to be difficult to dislodge while remaining relatively easy to refil. My idea here has been to use 2 O-Rings where the top is a tight fit and the lower is less so, this should mean it is initially difficult to lift the cap off but once you have passed the top ring it is easier and you don't chuck juice everywhere. The poly tube should be a tight fit at the join to the middle delrin section and difficult to remove. The central air tube is press fit at the bottom of the tank and a close fit at the top cap end.

 Refill.jpg   30.81K   180 downloads

To re-wick/re-coil the entire top section is removable from the base, again this is designed hopefully to be stiff but not impossible.

 Rebuild.jpg   32.62K   170 downloads

Close up of the base section with a wick fitted. What you cannot see in this picture is the recess that the bottom of the wick sits in, this is to aid placment of the wick and to prevent leaking.

 Base Assy.jpg   42.16K   142 downloads


So there is the result of a few ideas mixed and matched from other devices I have seen packaged in a form one of my favourite modders should be able to manufacture without hassle (hopefully). What I found interesting during the design was that although I started from a blank sheet some of the components especially the mid section have turned out to be very similar to how Clockworks designed the RTA. I guess like Bulli styles there is only so much variance in design when you have the same goals in mind.

Concerns with the concept so far: Really it is all about the seals, especially around the tank section. Easily solved using threads ala ACTv3 but that would also rule out pyrex tubing. The same solution may also be applied to the middle section and ally tube seal (not so sure of manufacturability here). Seal between ally and base. Any ideas there?

Disclaimer: I haven't spoken to Clockworks about this yet but I am confident he will have no objections as he has been up for the community lead design idea in the past

Provided you guys actually are interested in the idea and not just me I would like this to be a community based design. This could very well turn out to be a thought experiment but it we get it to the stage where it is viable (it's pretty close if not there already) Clockworks may knock a few up!

Your input is not only welcome it is encouraged



*Ming tip not included

Edited by Harlequin69, 28 January 2012 - 02:31 AM.

[Scorpius]

Very nice design Harle. Hope to see the RGA develop soon. Just one quick question, How does the vapour get into the mouth piece?

[Harlequin69]

Scorpius, on 28 January 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

Very nice design Harle. Hope to see the RGA develop soon. Just one quick question, How does the vapour get into the mouth piece?

It's not obvious in the pics but the idea is to cut off the air tube from the ce2 assembly and then press fit into the mid delrin section where it then extends up through the centre to the top cap where it is a light close fit

Edit: in the complete pic at top it is the dark piece in the centre of the tube.

Edited by Harlequin69, 28 January 2012 - 01:16 AM.

[stevosteebs]

NICE work mate!

[Scorpius]

Ahh now I get it, thats a nice idea Harle. nice one . Any particular reson why you have gone for an inverted gen / bottom coil? I hope you don't mind me asking such questions.

[Harlequin69]

Scorpius, on 28 January 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

Ahh now I get it, thats a nice idea Harle. nice one . Any particular reson why you have gone for an inverted gen / bottom coil? I hope you don't mind me asking such questions.

All about the wicking really, I have found even when I used the line, albeit briefly, you had to upend it to flood the wick fairly frequently. Those guys are trying to work out how to get juice up there quicker, probably easier to get gravity to lend a hand. This way means that the coil is always wet and you should be able to really push it without a hint of dryness. That's the theory anyway

The questions are really what this is all about mate, if I haven't explained it well enough then you guys can't chip in with your genius lol ask away!

[smokeydokie]

How would you stop the juce flooding in all the time?

Smokey

[Digisatman]

Checkout this site http://gtankus.pseudus.com/?page_id=36 might help on ideas

[smokeydokie]

Delrin is unsuitable for food contact applications. that worrys me a little never looked into derlin.

Smokey

[Harlequin69]

smokeydokie, on 28 January 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

How would you stop the juce flooding in all the time?

Smokey

There is only one way out for the juice to go really and that is evaporated off the wick and unless there is a pressure differential it should stay put. Bud tanks, iMist tanks, bulli tanksand ego tanks for example all work off the same principle. When you take a draw you create a pressure differential within the coil chamber, the chamber is lower pressure than the air in the tank and you suck some juice out. When you stop sucking the pressure differential goes the other way and allows air into the tank.

[steffijade]

Wow.. a lot of thought gone into this. I already own an RTA and if this design proves workable (and if Clockworks is interested in building it), I'd be interested in joining a list.

Good work Harlequin.

[Harlequin69]

smokeydokie, on 28 January 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

Delrin is unsuitable for food contact applications. that worrys me a little never looked into derlin.

Smokey

Wiki

Quote

The Food and Drug Administration has approved Delrin for use in the food industry.^[

DuPont

Quote

Data Sheets for Delrin® acetal Food Compliance Applications

Not sure where you got that Smokey

Edit: Maybe not all Delrin is food safe but I assume (dangerous I know) Clockworks chose food safe for all his products.....

Edited by Harlequin69, 28 January 2012 - 01:46 AM.

[doc2803]

my physics is a bit rusty, left school 32 yrs ago! but wont atmospheric pressure stop flooding as long as the wick is a tight fit were it passes through the middle of the tank? so when you take a draw the reduction in pressure in bottom tank refloods the wick? i think that right, aint it ?

i want one now, clock im 2nd on list after harlequinn.

regards Dave

[Snow]

One thing that I find tough going on the RTA is having the wick so close to my mouth. I worry that I may struggle with the same issue in the Genesis line. Having the whole thing inverted allows a bit of space for the vapour to cool down on it's way to throat town. I guess this and the fact that gravitation is on the wicking's side are the reason for it being inverted. Though obviously I can't speak for Harlequin.
When I got my RTA I suggested flipping the whole thing upside down, and having it work on dispslacement a la CE3, to clockworks. Not in anywhere near such a well planned out way as the fine example above though. He seemed interested but said that for now he was going continue as is whilst people are still adding themselves to the list. He did say that once he'd fullfilled his obligations he'd rethink the rebuildable design. When that time comes I really hope he makes use of your design here Harlequin.
Also, I want one!
Brilliant mate!

Do you think the wick will hold the juice and not allow liquid to leak into the bottom chamber. I can't tell but I fear it might flood. One way to syop it might be to use the same displacement principles as the CE3 where air has to be able to get into the chamber/tank for liquid to get out. May be the middle body section has to be one piece though. Infact if you made the whole top section one peice it wouldn't hurt. There's always a way around the filling issue I reckon.

Edit: Damn look at all these posts that turned up while I was typing. You flippers! You beat me to it. Now I'm late to the party. Story of my life. One day........one day...: )

Edited by Snow, 28 January 2012 - 01:58 AM.

[doc2803]

seriously mate this is a superb idea and very sound wish id thought of it lol.

[Harlequin69]

doc2803, on 28 January 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

my physics is a bit rusty, left school 32 yrs ago! but wont atmospheric pressure stop flooding as long as the wick is a tight fit were it passes through the middle of the tank? so when you take a draw the reduction in pressure in bottom tank refloods the wick? i think that right, aint it ?

i want one now, clock im 2nd on list after harlequinn.

regards Dave

bingo

[doc2803]

im up for testin ill even pay if i have too lol

[nibbles]

Lot of thought and graft went into that. Could this be the U.K. genesis tank system project and can we sort it before America (we can leave them to market it for us afterwards) ?
and yes, I want to test as well.

Edited by nibbles, 28 January 2012 - 04:47 AM.

[gman2432]

Damn I hate you all!! Just when I think I have the perfect setup, another mod comes along! I knew I should have stuck with the blue foam filler cart!

[Snow]

Blue foam filler cart? What is this new fangled device of wonder that you speak of?