21 replies to this topic

[rubin12]

From the ECF:

http://www.e-cigaret...tml#post5191742

[Maff]

So they're trying to classify everything to do with ecigs (batteries, chargers, tips, atties, cartos, juice etc) as tobacco products? Money grabbers....

[wfx]

yep. if you can't ban it, tax it. but in our national and global economy, a local tax is really pointless. for example i don't think folks in the EU have any trouble getting snus.

[pmos69]

That would just lead the industry into (even) more modular devices.
Don't think there would be a lot to tax except e-liquids and possibly atomizers.
Well, even non-nic e-liquids could be a tough call, because I can go right now to my local supermarket and get some food flavourings that are just composed of PG and flavour. Maybe they would ask me at the counter if I'm going to cook with it or vape it.

[Screwdriverer]

So long as nicotine base is available online I don't see there ever being much of a problem for myself.
I have a PV with rebuildable atty capability built in. Kanthal wire will avoid extra taxes as will Stainless steel mesh.
Propylene glycol and Vegetable Glycerine are food products as are the flavourings.
Purchasing Lithium Ion batteries from LED torch retailers will slide past this issue too.

Get your bases covered.

[ronnieb]

My way of thinking too mate. They will need to get up very early to get much tax from me.

[vaporhawk]

Screwdriverer, on 02 February 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

So long as nicotine base is available online I don't see there ever being much of a problem for myself.
I have a PV with rebuildable atty capability built in. Kanthal wire will avoid extra taxes as will Stainless steel mesh.
Propylene glycol and Vegetable Glycerine are food products as are the flavourings.
Purchasing Lithium Ion batteries from LED torch retailers will slide past this issue too.

Get your bases covered.

And I believe much of the nicotine is now derived from potatoes (and can come from tomatoes also) so they might have to tax a salad to get us to pay the big dollars. HA!
It's also probably a push from big pharma like nicorette etc. Those patches are virtually 100% profit if you take away the ad campaigns. (plus they don't work - at least for me they never did)

[spikeychops]

Typical greedy buggers at the cookie jar again.

I can see it now...street corner hoodie kids flogging illicit ecig stuff...Pssst...mate...c'mere..wanna buy some primo RY?

[vaporhawk]

Hmm, I wonder if they targeted Hawaii first because it a mostly transient population of tourists that are in holiday mode. No one cares enough to complain because they are on holiday.
My parents also went there just recently and told me they were told by a local that there is a big issue with a homeless population that move there from mainland USA because they can sleep outside and stay warm. They aren't going to complain about taxes either if they can get arrested for having no fixed abode. ie no voting even though you are part of the population of Hawaii
Then once one state accepts the ruling it's probably easier to follow suit throughout the entire USA...
Gotta say that is a pretty clever hand by the legislators if it is the case.

I wonder.

[Maz]

It's just another example of the things that can be done against the citizens by the government in "the land of the free" (I don't mean any disrespect by the way to our US members). Some of the laws and the sentences routinely handed out would be regarded as human rights violations here (on the other hand some of ours are laughably lenient).

The worst we would ever get (and probably will at some point) is a 'vice' tax on nic/juice, everything else will just be subject to the VAT it already is. Hardware will never be banned as under our laws it cannot be (bongs, vapourisers, crack pipes, coke bullets/kits etc aren't banned, regardless of their intended uses), it also cannot be subject to any excess taxes.
Our laws legislate (and in the case of tobacco and alcohol, tax) against substance possession not paraphernalia or use, hence you cannot be charged with possession of a (clean and unused) bong but you can be for a bag of weed. You cannot be charged for any illicit substance found in your bloodstream (unless you're driving etc.) but you'd better hope to hell they don't find traces of the substance in your clothing.

Our laws differ, the EU is pushing to impose a ban, not the UK. The Americans (as far as I understand) pushed hard for vaping to come under tobacco legislation rather than medical, I don't know their laws, does tobacco paraphernalia attract 'vice' taxes in the US? if it does then this move would make perfect sense.

[spikeychops]

I remember reading on a mainly US forum years ago (not ecig related), that in the US just possessing a bong or pipe etc, is enough to convict under archaic soft drug laws.

Even a brand new, never used bong will get them nicked over there apparently.

The land of the free indeed.

Free to do as they're told it seems.

[vaporhawk]

spikeychops, on 02 February 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I remember reading on a mainly US forum years ago (not ecig related), that in the US just possessing a bong or pipe etc, is enough to convict under archaic soft drug laws.

Even a brand new, never used bong will get them nicked over there apparently.

The land of the free indeed.

Free to do as they're told it seems.

Yeah, I watched "cops" a few weeks back and possession of a crack pipe is and offense, Especially if you have a darker complexion it seems. I'm tv educated!!
But in a country where jail is a private enterprise that produces a major percentage of the the countries furniture, is tax payer funded, pays inmates rate of a couple of dollars a day to work and rewards police for more arrests. I cannot see where there is room for corruption and vice. There's too much commerce going on for that!!!

In a country that is constantly being encouraged to vote against free healthcare by an Australian media mogul, how can people be misguided!

But seriously, is is refreshing that more people 25-35 are getting their news from the comedy channel than from fox.

I used to be a news director for a tv station and it was basically read the fax and record the story stuff!!!

I did not last long in that occupation!

(in Australia)

BTW
How many people have a brand new, never used, bong!
HA
No bong owners I know.
"Hmm, I'll just buy a bong and save it for later when I take up Mary Jane?"

[wfx]

land of the free. the american dream. human rights. yeah there is a hypocrisy in american political discourse that's just shameful. we stood idle while they built a nascent puritan mafia. good news is that these guys overstepped badly and don't know when to quit. they are going to be squashed properly this year. thanks to the Royal College and my friends in the UK for making it all possible.

[spikeychops]

@ Vaporhawk, i hear you and agree mate.

I'm not surprised in the least at your 'read the fax and report it as stated' remark either. I seem to remember a fair amount of that was going down on a certain day back in 2001 too...but that's another story.

I bet you could tell some tales from you ex-newsroom days eh?

@ wfx, I also agree it's gotten to a shameful state of affairs in the US...and i mean that it's shameful as in it's a real shame things have been allowed to slither along under the collective radar of most of the US people over the last few decades, to get to the point where 'the authorities' are beating to death law abiding, but protesting citizens, including recently a Marine corps war veteran who was attending one of the 'Occupy' locations, who was also beaten to death by those who are there supposedly to serve and protect.

The mass media are not the mass media. They have also, on the whole, been usurped and are used more or less as a propaganda tool
for corporate interests / government interests.

I admire the US people, but no longer think of the USA as i did as a boy. During the cold war, next to Great Britain, i thanked my lucky stars the world had a United States of America. Now, i actually fear the US's influence on Britain, rather than welcome it.

It is a crying shame.

[vaporhawk]

wfx, on 02 February 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

land of the free. the american dream. human rights. yeah there is a hypocrisy in american political discourse that's just shameful. we stood idle while they built a nascent puritan mafia. good news is that these guys overstepped badly and don't know when to quit. they are going to be squashed properly this year. thanks to the Royal College and my friends in the UK for making it all possible.

Do you think?
I mean china owns so much usd that the usa just reduced the debt by printing more usd and gave it to bankers and close mates.
Now the general population is poorer and the elite wealthier and china owns less %value of the us economy.
Without a currency change it's sure to happen again in some form.

Bring on the revolution.

in Aus we have now have the richest person in the world (a ruthless minining air who can crush climate change debates with pocket change - or anything that stands in her way for that matter).

I hope you can find a solution, because a majority of people here are not that worldly also.

They also care more about lady gaga's latest stupid outfit than developing an opinion on global matters or the downfall of their rights.

HA

When the destruction comes, it it so often welcomed with open arms!!!

I bet this 70% tax is reduced.
Then hawaii vapers will feel like they won and the govt gets the 40% tax they really wanted.

HA - Oh Bugger!! - where is my un-used bong when i need it?

[vaporhawk]

spikeychops, on 02 February 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

@ Vaporhawk, i hear you and agree mate.

I'm not surprised in the least at your 'read the fax and report it as stated' remark either. I seem to remember a fair amount of that was going down on a certain day back in 2001 too...but that's another story.

I bet you could tell some tales from you ex-newsroom days eh?

Ha I was just a child really, the producer was in control of the content, I just put it to air. Did we work at the same news station, I think it was 2002?

For years I could not watch the news because i knew how it was made.
Now i just enjoy making fun of it so people realize it is mostly crap.

I mean 30% ish of it in Australia is sport.
But you know it's a slow sport day when they start on about the groin injuries.
Just show us a picture and get on with it if it is that important!!!
HA!!!

And now here is Stevo todays sport report
Stevo- Thanks rumple stilt skin, Well Jesus had a groin injury during training this week. Here's a picture. do you think it will heal before the big match this weekend? I don't know, it's difficult to tell form the fax printout!"

"And now to the weather"

The real thing that i disliked about news was the mentality that if it was on fire or people were really hurt and there were pictures, everyone in the news room (esp the journos) were happy because they knew the ratings would be high. Really not my type of environment.

I like lollypops and rainbows personally and if not that, just the truth will suffice.

[spikeychops]

Never worked in propaga...i mean 'news', hardly ever watch it either...haven't bought a paper (of any 'colour') for at least 20 years, but THE single most personally shocking news item i ever saw wasn't 7/7, nor 9/11, nor wierdos cutting off their own genitals, cooking and then eating them (eek!), but was a very short, very casually delivered (almost surreal really), 10 second 'spot' during a cold weather snap we had one winter about eight or so years ago...the reporter, a woman said almost as an aside to waffling on about sleet, snow and how cold it currently was, that last year approx 30,000 (that's THIRTY THOUSAND!) people, mainly made up of the elderly and homeless died as a direct result of the weather in the UK...

I tell ya...i still can't get over the numbers involved. Researching it further, i found that was a faily lowish average number, with some years getting up 10's of thousands more cold victims. And this happens here every single year.

The USA has even higher numbers of deaths due to cold weather, every year too.

It was so casual, so 'well, that's the way it goes' kind of attitude, in a couple of G7 countries, in the 21st century..10X the numbers that were killed in 9/11, regularly die here, not from killer mutant viruses, nor from terrorism lobbing dirty bombs or whatever left ,right and center, but from not having access to heat or having enough money to heat their homes properly.

At least 10X more people dead than died during Madrid, 7/7, 9/11 combined and look at the resources that has been spent as direct result of those events..then wonder why it's completely acceptable for our people to die from cold?..it's unreal.

Sorry for going off topic mods...i'm ranting again, i'll stop now.

Totally agree that the old 'set the rumour mill tax level high, and then drop to what you really want to charge' chestnut is in evidence here in the Hawaii thing.

Most of the public will think they have won some kind of victory when they see an imaginary 'cut' in the stated tax rate of 40% - 50%...we're so gullible sometimes, we fall for it every time. (we being the public of course)

If they come out with a 30 - 40% tax, most of the numpties will think they got off lightly.

Anyone want to start a colony on a remote island? I've had enough of 'civilisation'.

[vaporhawk]

spikeychops, on 02 February 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Anyone want to start a colony on a remote island? I've had enough of 'civilisation'.

I'm in

But lets just build one!
One rule!
BYO sand


Oh, we might just have to buy it off Gina Rinehart Now.
There goes that idea!

Edited by vaporhawk, 02 February 2012 - 04:49 PM.

[wfx]

vaporhawk, on 02 February 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

When the destruction comes, it it so often welcomed with open arms!!!

destruction is the seed of creation. but not quite the apocalyptic mayan vision of 2012 is it. this is much better. don't set sail for that deserted isle just yet.

[vaporhawk]

Ha, just waxing lyrical

I'm in Australia, kind of already a deserted isle!

The mayan calendar - is that the one with Cindy Crawford on the cover?
That is so old!
I've had at least 3 new ones since that one,
You have to up date at least every 5 years dude. The pictures change!

Edited by vaporhawk, 02 February 2012 - 05:03 PM.