197 replies to this topic

[Kate]

Sorry but it doesn't look very good - http://vapersnetwork...ng%20letter.pdf



I've sent this to the media and everybody I could think of:

The FDA have been suppressing smokeless cigarettes since at least 1987, taking them off the commercial market and making them unprofitable or ineffective in order to protect their pharmaceutical sponsors and tax revenue. Public health is not a consideration.

In Europe, Swedish snus are banned - the least harmful tobacco product but which works better than NRT for smokers.

Now another massive blow to the harm reduction market, UK authorities have decided to ban all recreational nicotine, bar tobacco on the basis of a flawed 'consultation' and in spite of thousands of testimonies about the value of recreational sales.

400,000 existing UK users of electronic cigarettes and millions of potential swappers are now left with no legal alternative to smoke. The small businesses which brought us these life changing products are to be destroyed and the unregulated, higher risk import market will be the only source of supplies for people who bother to go to the trouble to try the product. The disproportionate and unjustified burden of medical regulation may well destroy the usefulness of the product and make it unprofitable. (For more details about commercial and economic impacts, Michael from http://www.cheapelec...garettes.co.uk/ says he can tell you how his business will be affected - sales@cheap-electronic-cigarettes.co.uk )

Keeping people smoking, stigmatised, quitting, failing and repeating the process is how tobacco control keeps their gravy train running - over our dead bodies. The NHS is no longer a public health organisation, it is the state's drug dealing arm and we're forced by rent seeking legislation to use only their drugs while being subjected to non-consensual addiction treatment or exclusion from healthcare, care homes and social venues.

Nicotine has a similar pharmacological action to caffeine, it's not a big deal but the delivery system can be harmful. The government will only allow the most harmful or those proven not to work, creating a problem and spinning it out of control; costing a fortune in financial, social and human terms.

Over twenty countries have closed their recreational nicotine markets since electronic cigarettes emerged six years ago. This medicalisation process is promoted by the World Health Organisation which only endorses proven ineffective pharmaceutical products and encourages suppression of harm reduction strategies.

Presumably the medicalisation of all recreational substances is the goal for totalitarian control.



Further reading on this issue - http://vapersnetwork...esponse%204.doc











http://www.pressandj...851417?UserKey=

It's your duty to be healthy

EDIT
Had to do a wee bit of reformatting, one line got shifted out of context.

Edited by Kate, 31 July 2010 - 02:24 PM.

[Shifty]

Oh bollox!! wonder how long weve got?

Could this explain the 50% TECC sale or is it unrelated?

Edited by Shifty, 31 July 2010 - 02:19 PM.

[Kingtut]

Shifty, on 31 July 2010 - 02:18 PM, said:

Oh bollox!! wonder how long weve got?

Could this explain the 50% TECC sale or is it unrelated?

Makes you wonder if that is the case................................................ Ecigs 0 1

Edited by cliffy1, 31 July 2010 - 02:34 PM.

[xjohnukold]

Shifty, on 31 July 2010 - 02:18 PM, said:

Oh bollox!! wonder how long weve got?

Could this explain the 50% TECC sale or is it unrelated?

I'm wundrin... TW have their American sales arm so are less affected - on the other hand, TECC is more UK based methinks, add the actual name and branding of the company... The Electronic Cigarette Company... looks less legal from this perspective? Hmmmmmmmm.... anything TECC branded may soon be collectors items! BUGGER!!!!!!!!

Will this 'ban' affect our purchases of hardware and e-liquids from say China after the 'ban'.... DO we need to panic?
--------------------------------


Btw, kate, you've done such an brilliant job in this area, I just wanna say MANY MANY THANKS!!!!!!!

Edited by xjohnuk, 31 July 2010 - 02:38 PM.

[Shifty]

xjohnuk, on 31 July 2010 - 02:36 PM, said:

Shifty, on 31 July 2010 - 02:18 PM, said:

Oh bollox!! wonder how long weve got?

Could this explain the 50% TECC sale or is it unrelated?

I'm wundrin... TW have their American sales arm so are less affected - on the other hand, TECC is more UK based methinks, add the actual name and branding of the company... The Electronic Cigarette Company... looks less legal from this perspective? Hmmmmmmmm.... anything TECC branded may soon be collectors items! BUGGER!!!!!!!!

Will this 'ban' affect our purchases of hardware and e-liquids from say China after the 'ban'.... DO we need to panic?

Not unless they put a banning order in place which is unlikely, should be business as usual for China/Italy orders. What could happen is if more countries follow UK MHRA's decision is that the demand for e-liquid goes down to a point of not being commercially viable for China to export it. I reckon out of all the vapers in the UK only a small percentage order from abroad. At a guess i would think that the UK and USA are China's main customers for liquid.

[Kate]

I was told by the MHRA that they're not asking for a banning order.

[blackbug]

I thought the new government was all about personal choice? They're Labour in disguise on this issue then.

Or it is too low down on the chain for them to notice.

Or the appropriate appendages have been in the appropriate trousers.

[xjohnukold]

Shifty, on 31 July 2010 - 02:42 PM, said:

Not unless they put a banning order in place which is unlikely, should be business as usual for China/Italy orders. What could happen is if more countries follow UK MHRA's decision is that the demand for e-liquid goes down to a point of not being commercially viable for China to export it. I reckon out of all the vapers in the UK only a small percentage order from abroad. At a guess i would think that the UK and USA are China's main customers for liquid.

Seems to me that is gonna take some extra time to happen, so I feel more confident that we'll still be able to source our needs from abroad, but I'm sooooo bl**dy sorry for the mess this will leave our UK based businesses in! Seems like Plan B will be happening for some... I'm sure Abe has contingency plans.

Leaves our UK Vapers Forum more essential to us than ever!??!

[Shifty]

Kate, on 31 July 2010 - 02:48 PM, said:

I was told by the MHRA that they're not asking for a banning order.

It's not really a big enough concern for them to worry about, just a drop in the ocean. Now if there were millions of people ordering in from abroad i reckon a banning order would deff be in place.
From what i can tell there's still no timeframe for when this comes into effect, maybe's there's a chance that a legal challenge can get this shitty MLX 364 thrown in the bin where it belongs.

[Jackie]

I'd be lying if I said this was a total surprise, but still...

I can't think of much to say atm that doesn't involve lots of expletives!

[xjohnukold]

blackbug, on 31 July 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

Or it is too low down on the chain for them to notice.

Realistically, yes! There are TOO MANY other more important issues allied to our current 'financial crisis'... many thousands of peeps losing their jobs for example, public service spending, the NHS, cost savings here there and everywhere, has to be priority compared to the whims of 'a few' e-cig' users? Yeah... we're plankton I'm afraid...

[xjohnukold]

Jackie, on 31 July 2010 - 02:58 PM, said:

I can't think of much to say atm that doesn't involve lots of expletives!

I kinda feel the same way... As many know I'm still an analogue smoker... I will defo STOP asap as my personal protest to stop me paying ridiculous taxes into the govt coffers each and every time I buy a pack of fags, and spend same dosh importing e-liquids from China, at no profit to the UK whatsoever... I'm just disgusted right now...

[Tyke]

blackbug, on 31 July 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

I thought the new government was all about personal choice? They're Labour in disguise on this issue then.

Or it is too low down on the chain for them to notice.

Don't forget we've had 13 years of nanny state, interventionist, regulating, controlling government, that won't go away overnight or even in a couple of years. Most of the executive agencies were set up to regulate one part of life or another, to get rid of them won't be quick or trivial.

E-smoking is also far too low visibility to stand any chance of being noticed. Even if there are 400k active vapers in the UK (which seems optimistically high to me) it's not enough to register as a largely inconvenienced group to pay attention to.

If it looks likely that a ban will hit I will get in a stock of liquids and atomisers even larger than I have now and carry on vaping.

[Nukem]

2 seconds guys I'll phone David Cameron get this whole mess sorted within half an hour.

[Shifty]

Tyke, on 31 July 2010 - 03:06 PM, said:

blackbug, on 31 July 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

I thought the new government was all about personal choice? They're Labour in disguise on this issue then.

Or it is too low down on the chain for them to notice.

Don't forget we've had 13 years of nanny state, interventionist, regulating, controlling government, that won't go away overnight or even in a couple of years. Most of the executive agencies were set up to regulate one part of life or another, to get rid of them won't be quick or trivial.

E-smoking is also far too low visibility to stand any chance of being noticed. Even if there are 400k active vapers in the UK (which seems optimistically high to me) it's not enough to register as a largely inconvenienced group to pay attention to.

If it looks likely that a ban will hit I will get in a stock of liquids and atomisers even larger than I have now and carry on vaping.

We really dont have much to worry about concerning this ban, it'll be a minor irritation for us. What it will do is kill off any new people wanting to start vaping as it will appear illegal, even if it's not.
What really pisses me off is the effect it's going to have on our UK vendors....Liberty Flights, cloud9, OKsmokey....etc, more job losses!!, less money going into the economy.

It's mind blowing that a government can see fit to ban something that as caused no deaths compared to smoking which kills millions each year, now where's the logic in that!

[Kate]

Nukem, on 31 July 2010 - 03:09 PM, said:

2 seconds guys I'll phone David Cameron get this whole mess sorted within half an hour.

Yes please, that would be great, thanks


My main hope is that TS have jumped the gun or are scaremongering - the decision hasn't been formally announced yet so there might be some value in kicking up a bit of shit.

[xjohnukold]

Tyke, on 31 July 2010 - 03:06 PM, said:

E-smoking is also far too low visibility to stand any chance of being noticed.

Millions of smokers in UK have never even heard of e-cigs, let's be honest. Those of us that have 'seen the light' are just too few to make the difference... we're hardly likely to form a seriously major protest demonstration outside #10!

I think we just have to accept 'que sera sera', as disgusted as we are, and use our Forums for support in respect of our supplies etc. I think we kinda 'knew' this was to be the case, notwithstanding some other rather optimistic postings recently... I just wonder if sales will surge again at TECC on news of this... even I'm tempted to scour TECC again at current prices as a future investment, cheaper than China...

Numbed in a way too...

Oh, b*gger!

[Shifty]

Kate, on 31 July 2010 - 03:21 PM, said:

Nukem, on 31 July 2010 - 03:09 PM, said:

2 seconds guys I'll phone David Cameron get this whole mess sorted within half an hour.

Yes please, that would be great, thanks


My main hope is that TS have jumped the gun or are scaremongering - the decision hasn't been formally announced yet so there might be some value in kicking up a bit of shit.

Shit kicking is always fun

[xjohnukold]

Shifty, on 31 July 2010 - 03:22 PM, said:

Shit kicking is always fun

But has it been productive?

[Shifty]

xjohnuk, on 31 July 2010 - 03:24 PM, said:

Shifty, on 31 July 2010 - 03:22 PM, said:

Shit kicking is always fun

But has it been productive?

No but it's good stress relief

Edited by Shifty, 31 July 2010 - 03:26 PM.