197 replies to this topic

[Kate]

They said 'September', then they said 'Autumn'. My bets are on them waiting until the FDA/NJOY case is over in the US so they don't influence the outcome or so they can leach the arguments if the case is lost for us.

Edited by Kate, 06 September 2010 - 07:29 PM.

[Kate]

I don't like the sound of this:

Quote

An updated Impact Assessment will be published when we announce the outcome of consultation.

http://www.ecigarett...this-month.html

[westcoast2]

The 'consultation' was lacking if the Impact assessment used at the time needs to be revised. Revising the assessment at the time of the decision being announced does not address the complaint. If this were the case any consultation could give a bogus impact assessment.

The impact assessment formed part of the consultation documentation and people's responses to the consultation would have relied, in part, on it.

This state of affairs clearly calls for a period of further consultation based on a new impact assessment if any changes to the status quo are recommended. It would be interesting to see if this contravenes any HMG regulations with regard to consultations. Of course they may wish to reconsultant anyway and this gives them an excuse.

This is a disgraceful way to treat people.

[Kate]

Here's the code of practice on consultations:

http://www.bis.gov.u...s/file47158.pdf

[Tyke]

If the Impact Assessment is being revised then any work prior to that would appear to have failed Criterion 3.

[Kate]

It will be interesting to see how they announce a decision later this month with a new impact assessment.

I sent this to the MHRA today just to see if they're asleep:

Quote

I've heard that you will need to undertake another consultation on the regulation of nicotine containing products following RPC criticism of the current consultation such as the need for valid choices as well as a real impact assessment.

Please could you confirm whether any conclusions drawn from the current flawed consultation will breach the Code of Practice on Consultations?

[Kate]

Got this reply today from the MRSA:

Quote

We will not be repeating the consultation exercise. We are aware of the
Regulatory Policy Committee's criticisms of the Impact Assessment and
can assure you we have taken their comments into account. An updated
Impact Assessment will be published when we announce the outcome of
consultation.

[doodlebug]

Kate, on 16 September 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:

Got this reply today from the MRSA:

Quote

We will not be repeating the consultation exercise. We are aware of the
Regulatory Policy Committee's criticisms of the Impact Assessment and
can assure you we have taken their comments into account. An updated
Impact Assessment will be published when we announce the outcome of
consultation.

It is my understanding, having read the Guidance on Consultations thoroughly, that it is normal practice to provide an updated IA at the time when a decision is published following consultation. However, this does not excuse the appallingly slipshod rendition of the MHRA's original IA. It is completely inadequate, as the RPC found and published in their Opinion.

This has incensed me so much that I am in the process of doing a more accurate IA, properly examining all three policy options, not just Option 2 as the MHRA chose to do (despite stating their preference for Option 1!?!?!?), and providing (hopefully!) far more accurately-estimated costs and benefits for each.

It is entirely possible that this will be a total waste of time, but I'm going to give it a go, and take it to the MHRA at our meeting on the 28th, and then on to meetings with Andrew Lansley and Vince Cable in due course. Somebody somewhere is going to listen sometime....

As for when the decision will be made, I suspect it will be September 29th or 30th. I agree, it is highly likely that the decision has been made, and I believe that they are going for Option 2, and will suggest that 2 years is reasonable. Of course, we know that this is not the case, not least because ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES ARE NOT MEDICINES!!!!!!!

So we'll continue fighting.

[Kate]

If there is a genuine need to medicalise all nicotine products they can't justify waiting two years.

[doodlebug]

Kate, on 16 September 2010 - 09:40 PM, said:

If there is a genuine need to medicalise all nicotine products they can't justify waiting two years.

Nor can they justify leaving out tobacco cigarettes. None of it adds up, so we just have to see if we can make common sense make sense to them... unlikely, I know!

[Kate]

Good luck with that. They're not ordinary people, they're the ones who know everything and decide what the rest of us are allowed to do. Common sense can only get you so far if conflicting interests are more important.

[Wheezer]

The "conflicting interests" as you put it are the Tobacco Industry and the big pharms.
They have ruled the roost for YEARS.
YES, the Tobacco Giants know that what they are providing is basically lethal, and NO, they don`t give a S**T. After all, they HAVE taken your money.
They are fully aware that a smoker dies every six minutes in the U.K., and so are the pharm companies. Hence the "we will stop you smoking " gimmicks.
We all know that they are hand in hand.

Both companies make MEGA bucks out of us.

Then the Government, what was it? TEN BILLION POUNDS in revenue from Tobacco last year?
You think for one moment that they are going to give that up readily?

Now that a "different" way of getting you Nic fix is availabe, they are SH****ng themselves.
BLOODY HELL!! we could all live longer ! That is not in the "Big Picture".

Let`s face it, BECAUSE it is better for you, and BECAUSE you could POSSIBLY live longer, it is upsetting all the plans.
AS far as I see it (though everyone may not agree) it goes like this-:

You start smoking, the Tobacco Industry love you. (we are making money)
The pharm companies love you, we will get you to quit. (we are making money)
The Government love you, (We are making BIG money) PLUS, when you die early from a smoking related illness,
we don`t have to pay out a PENSION ! (Even MORE money for us!)

It matters not if you try to "enlighten" them , or Kick, Bite,Holler or even PROVE that the P.V. is the way to go.
They COULD lose Money, and that is what FRIGHTENS them.
Tony.

[Kate]

I agree with you completely Tony, that's how I see it too. Add in the cessation industry and tobacco control and the picture is more complete. There are loads of folks making a killing, literally - it's definitely not in their interests to see us as human or to let us make our own choices.

For sure the decision was made at the beginning of this consultation and I'm not feeling hopeful that anything has changed unless there is any kind of push for support of free markets and informed choices. That's really an ethics and liberty call and I just don't see any recent political/government trends in favour in recent years.

Oh and welcome to the forum too

Edited by Kate, 17 September 2010 - 08:09 PM.

[markyd43]

OK now I'm totally confused. Just joined. A complete newbie and excited about the world of vaping as an alternative to the killer weed

Then...what? is it being banned? what is going on?

(in a nutshell pleaese...anyone?)

[Onceupon]

A nutshell?

Don't panic!

There

[Kate]

Yeah, don't worry Marky, we'll keep you right with good suppliers from abroad if local ones are shut down or not allowed to trade nicotine.

[markyd43]

Onceupon and Kate

Thanks for that.....I am excited about this new world of vaping...I'd hate to see it disappear in front of my eyes....see my newbie post..your support is welcome indeed

[xjohnukold]

markyd43, on 19 September 2010 - 12:02 AM, said:

Onceupon and Kate

Thanks for that.....I am excited about this new world of vaping...I'd hate to see it disappear in front of my eyes....see my newbie post..your support is welcome indeed

Yeah, what they said, and you're also right... there is another rather 'exciting' dimension to vaping, for all sorts of reasons... but if it helps you quit smoking, that in itself is amazing. Then the 'hobby' of vaping is summut else, and sustains forums like this. EVERYONE has questions, however long you have been vaping, so never be afraid to ask, however basic you think the question is. We have ALL started from knowing literally nowt... and members here are only too keen to support, in their own special way!