84 replies to this topic

[Crossbow]

We (the forum moderation team) find ourselves with a bit of a problem. Much as we dislike bans, rules and other such tedious nuisance, there has recently been a rather alarming insanely dangerous development in the ecig world. A company (with a past history of legally and morally questionable products) has started selling 98% pure nicotine, in bottles up to 200ml. Now I know in the past that we've pointed out the illegality of buying high strength solutions (under the Poisons Act), but this goes far beyond that.

Quote

Adults
The mean lethal dose has been estimated to be 30 to 60 mg (0.5-1.0 mg/kg) (Gosselin, 1988)

A single ml of 98% nicotine has 980mg of nicotine, making it many times a lethal dose, even by skin absorption, so potentially a few drops on the skin could be fatal. It may even be possible to OD by inhalation of the fumes from an open bottle. The website doesn't even give any significant warning about how dangerous this stuff is, nor how to handle it safely. Clearly, this is not something that anyone should have in their home (I'm a chemistry graduate, with a good idea of how to handle this safely, and it still scares the shit out of me, I'd feel safer with bottles of arsenic) as dangerous amounts may easily be transferred by contact, such as the outside of the pipette used to transfer it.

If ever there was a vaping product that was likely to result in accidental deaths, this is it, in fact given the toxicity of pure nicotine, it almost guarantees it. None of us have any desire to assist someone buying a product that is this dangerous.

We therefore feel that this company should not in anyway be promoted, supported or even given PR by mention. It's name and URL are now automatically filtered to remove them from posts. Any that are missed will be tidied up by hand. If other retailers come to our attention with similar products, the same policy will be applied.

Do not buy pure nicotine, and do not link to places where it is sold.

[ApOsTle51]

good job too.

[snuggyjods]

Bans can be good you see!

Quite agree Cross, thank you for posting and for your advice. I had seen posts before about high strength nicotine being dangerous but I hadnt realised quite HOW dangerous.

I would not consider buying anything of that strength as I am a clumsy clogs and would probably poison not only myself, but my family, friends and all my pets! I reckon I shall stick with the vendors I know and trust

thankyou

[xjohnukold]

No idea who these peeps are, but it's a very good post, CB!

[Jackie]

Considering 75mg strength is the legal limit unless you have a licensed laboratory (and that should be treated with respect), 980mg is absolutely totally and utterly insane, and downright frightening!

[Jaded]

I wonder what their staff mortality rate is...

[Snaggletooth]

There's surely legalities governing the public supply of such a high content product.

E-Ciggers should report them & fully explain the reasons for such.

Brownie points?

[Crossbow]

It would be illegal if the supplier were in this country, but they are not. It's almost certainly illegal to import though.

[Kate]

That's very worrying. I suspect that the law in the country which hosts this forum applies and that nothing over 75mg should be advertised here.

[Crossbow]

Given the international status of things, and posters being primarily responsible for their own posts the legal situation would be very murky (but when isn't it )
What there can't really be any debate about is is the total inappropriateness of selling pure nicotine. Whats next? mail order cyanide? (and no, if there are suppliers we don't want links )

[Kate]

What was the country of origin Crossbow? There are some mad eejits in the US and some folks in China who would sell their granny for a profit.

[Crossbow]

China. it's a company with a history of offering pharmaceutical vapes which would almost certainly be banned anywhere else (and which are almost certain to not function as advertised)

[Jaded]

Ah - found them. They also specialise in insecticide, fungicide, and pesticide. Perhaps they're looking to add suicide to their CV...

[Tyke]

Utter lunacy as you've pointed out, very sensible to apply this type of filtering Crossbow.

[Ian]

I'm not sure what the problem is, for the forum at least. There should be absolutely no question that the promotion of strengths of fluid that are both illegal and extremely dangerous should completely prohibited. I would also fully support and encourage the prohibition of links to any sites that sell such products, even if they sell other more legitimate products. I also think it would be beneficial to have a sticky clarifying the legal and health implications of high strength nicotine so that those who might not be aware of the risks have the opportunity to be educated.

[libertyflights]

Wow, they are selling consumer sized bottles. That is insane.

[Dave]

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I'm not sure what the problem is, for the forum at least

Aiding and abetting stupidity


Lol

[Wheezer]

This is NOT supposed to be selfish, but what worries me is the fact that if the relevant authorities get wind of this insane behaviour
could it not possibly result in the ban of ALL Nic liquid production?
Tony.

[Dave]

I don't think it would make any difference ...

The product under discussion is already 'illegal' for purchase by the unlicensed, also the sending of 'poisons' via the postal service is a heinous crime which may have repercussions for the purchaser in the UK as well as the seller.

A licensed purchaser has to use a delivery service that specialises in poisons ... and the cost of that service is horrendous, even just within the UK.

[googled]

That site is scary as hell..99% pure nicotine in a bottle marked "e-juice" for refilling e-cigs..

Edited by googled, 27 September 2010 - 04:22 PM.