23 replies to this topic

[myscannerdarkly]

I've read plenty of articles and discussions about how much better vaping is than smoking. This seems simple enough logic as smoking is incredibly toxic.

However I am a non-smoker who has taken up vaping. I have occasional asthma which doesn't seem to have been exacerbated by vaping so far but I obviously don't want to run into any problems in the future (or i would have been a smoker to start with).

I wonder if there are any other people who have come to vaping from a non-smoking background and whether they have noticed any effects.

Here are some questions:


1: When using pre-filled cartridges does the 'wool' in the cartridge heat to any degree that could be carcinogenic?

2: Is there any part of an e-cig which could heat to a point where it releases carcinogenic fumes or trace elements? I suppose a breakdown of which metals the e-cigs and screwdrivers are made from, and which plastics and there toxicity levels would have to be discussed to answer this.

That's all for now.

I'm a Noob so sorry if i'm repeating previously answered questions and thanks in advance for all answers.

[S3AB1SCU1T]

Hello myscannerdarkly, I do think that you are the first person (that I know of) that's come to vaping that did not smoke first. well I don't think that's a bad thing well done for not getting caught up in the evil weed first tho i am curious as to wondering what strength liquid you are using or are you using zero nic?

For your first question as far as I am aware the filler in standard carts is not heated up to any degree that could release anything toxic or carcinogenic

and 2nd I don't believe that the e cig can heat up the metals hot enough to release anything dangerous, but I am no expert and am sure there are people here that may know different.

Dont worry about asking questions we all need to learn and the only silly questions are the ones we never ask.
and also

[Tim21080]

Hi I am curious as to why a non smoker would take up vaping, What made you do it ?. I vape a zero nic liquid 99% of the time my addiction is the hand to mouth habbit however with a drink i do use a very low nic juice, i am just unsure what your addiction is. Welcome to ukv

[Tonythetiger122]

I know this thread is a little old, but I thought I would add a post anyway. I also am a non smoker who wants to take up vaping. I have ordered no nicotine juices from reputable places, no second rate chines crap. I have ordered from smoklessimage (dot) com and Pinkspotvapors (dot) com. I am also looking at nhaler (dot) com for the new Xhaler 3.7v, 5v, and, 6v mod. I actually haven't got the smokless image volt yet in the mail, but I have tried a friends mall brand smoke anywhere 2 years ago and didnt like it, I think it was either a bad brand, carto, juice, or battery, or because it needed primer puffs. I have heard the mall brands aren't that good. I want to take up vaping because it seems like fun and trying all the flavors from various sites recommended by people over at youtube like grimm green, seems awesome. I have smoked analog cigs before maybe 5 or 6 cigs total in my life. I remember enjoying it for the most part except for the terrible taste stuck in my mouth for hours. I had tried Marlboro smooths.I have also enjoyed a few cigars or cigarlos in the past. I remember smoking some real cigs when drinking a few times. I never "started" smoking cigarettes because of the health issues and risks also because I didn't want to be dependent on them or upset my parents and family. This is is why I ordered nic free juice and cartos. I also ordered some nicotine juice and cartos to let my smoker friends and family members try them out.. Ihaven't tried it yet but puresmoker (dot) com has some cigar juice that looks promising. I have been researching a lot lately on ecigs and pv mods. I am not a promoter for anybody or their sites I am just a person who has done some research and watched some youtube vids of some cool people.

[nudger1964]

i think theres probably quite a lot to be said for vaping as a weight control aid, just not sure how much this would apply to those not coming from smoking.
Certainly in my case the reason i looked to vaping was so that i didnt pile on the weight when i gave up ... giving up in itself wasnt really too difficult.
throughout history we have always had habbits like this, be it smoking, chewing tabacco or taking snuff... so i can see it may well have an attraction to non smokers, especially if they find themselves a set up that delivers good strong taste

[muppetboy]

Most people I know (mainly online) are those that had tried to quit using traditional methods (NRT, etc.) and it hadn't worked for them, We all know that willpower alone is a major factor into quitting. This topic is kind of worrying that a total non-smoker wishes to start vaping. While it's true that you can buy liquids with zero nicotine, the incentive for me alone is to eventually reduce my intake of the strength I use all together after quitting the weed last September. Although my wife is quite happy and proud for me to vape as long as I feel comfortable and need too. (she still smokes but is planning to switch to vaping once she finds the right liquid taste and hit). Like Tim21080, it is mainly the hand to mouth and "hit" I missed the most.

But yes, I'm very intrigued as to why a non-smoker would want to start vaping. Could this really be the start of a new trend? A nation of vapers?

[nudger1964]

i dont see why it is a worrying topic for you, assuming zero nic of course.

you can argue there is always the possiblility of ill effects which are as yet unknown...but otherwise i dont see why it so different from a habbit like chewing gum

[westcoast2]

While at the Stony Standoff, I came across a non-smoker who was also a vaper. He seemed quite content, used zero nic and vaped because he enjoyed the flavours. He didn't go into detail as to why he tried it but he was using a 510 Titan.

So it does seem non-smokers are vaping.

[Maz]

I switched to vaping because I was a smoker that couldn't quit, no matter how many times I tried and knew full well it's seriously damaging my health because I could feel it long before an X-Ray confirmed it. I know from experience vaping is the better option, as do almost all of us.

I've also got to put myself in the 'why the hell would you want to do it?' camp on the issue of non-smokers taking up vaping.. Is it because you think smoking is cool and like the look but don't want the risk, or in the case of zero nic, the addiction? I can't get away from the image thing of smoking as this, to me, is the only explanation.

I'd have to say the same as I would to a non-smoker who was asking me about taking up smoking. Don't, it's stupid.

There may also be risks we don't know about yet, these possible risks have to be weighed against the alternative, for Trogs "old buggers with a cough", confirmed smokers feeling the effects of a long term smoking addiction the possible risks of vaping pale into insignificance when compared against the known dangers of smoking but for healthy, non-smokers it's an unknown with potentially a considerable risk when compared to a lifetime of breathing only fresh air.

Vaping zero nic as a non-smoker is not only pointless, but at some point along the line a percentage of the people doing it will end up with a nicotine habit through simple curiosity. OK so vaping is better than smoking and if you were going to get addicted one way or another then vaping is undoubtedly the lesser of the two evils but far better if you've avoided smoking this long to just stay away from vaping altogether. We all gained from the switch to vaping, non-smokers taking up vaping can only lose in one way or another. Remember also that the whole ritual and 'hand to mouth' thing is also part of the addiction, if you don't get a nicotine addiction there are other elements you might inadvertently pick up.

Too many non-smokers drawn to vaping will definitely give the antis some very powerful ammunition as they fight to get it banned, "Evil e-cigarettes - non-smokers lured into nicotine addiction hell by sweet dessert flavours shocker!"

This is a very sanctimonious and preachy post, I know that and it wasn't really intentional, you are adults capable of making your own decisions of course and at the end of the day those decisions don't affect me much, I am sorry but I felt the need to post it anyway..

Sermon over

[chillimont]

I agree with Maz 100%. Nicely put too!

[fynger]

yep i agree too

[westcoast2]

Quote

I'd have to say the same as I would to a non-smoker who was asking me about taking up smoking. Don't, it's stupid.

Clearly people take up smoking. Given that they will smoke and ignore the advice in the quote above, would it be better to side track them into vaping?
What if they try cigs and (shock, horror) they enjoy them, would 'try vaping' then become an acceptable piece of advice to give to them?

Quote

the possible risks of vaping pale into insignificance when compared against the known dangers of smoking but for healthy, non-smokers it's an unknown with potentially a considerable risk when compared to a lifetime of breathing only fresh air.

Fresh air? City dwelllers clearly do not breath 'Fresh air' since air pollution is a major issue.

Quote

Too many non-smokers drawn to vaping will definitely give the antis some very powerful ammunition as they fight to get it banned, "Evil e-cigarettes - non-smokers lured into nicotine addiction hell by sweet dessert flavours shocker!"

The antis certainly have tried this, though If I recall correctly, the non-smoking vaper I met, had been vaping for about a year and had always used zero nic. This is itself of interest. As you mention smoking has many factors associated with it and vaping without nic addresses many of them. Is it a problem for someone to vape zero nic if they stay there? Maybe some would start to use nic. Is this an issue, since if e-cigs were not available would they try regular cigs anyway? Some may add nic and find it is not for them and continue to use zero nic as they find it enjoyable. Is this a 'problem' for them if that is want they want and choose?

Perhaps it is, as you suggest, a problem for the vaping community since the majority view the vaping community as either ex-smokers or dual users. This leads to a defining of the issues as smoking/vaping, anti-smoking/vaping rather than vaping as an independant choice.

On another tack, is it possible that non tobacco smoking people could come to vaping via other routes? Perhaps via herbs or via certain other illegal 'substances'. It seems that organisations that are engaged in reducing harm from these other substances would also welcome the e-cig. Of course this opens up another can of worms.

I suggest e-cigs are an adult choice. They are, and this I realise is very much a minority view, not entirely equivalent to smoking although they can be functionaly equivalent.. My view is that they are a choice, for whatever reason, an adult may make, given fair and free information.

Edited by westcoast2, 21 July 2011 - 01:31 PM.

[KnightSquared]

One thing about the wool. You do have a point there.

For example, if your cart is running dry you often get that well known 'burnt taste' as if the wool is burning.

This is something I am concerned to know more about.

I am sure they wouldn't have passed safety regulations if it was dangerous, but surely the act of burning filler cannot be good?

[PapaLazarou]

I think that is more of a concern with cartomisers than traditional atomisers. You've really got to be "giving it some welly" to actually burn the filler a standard cart. But some cartomiser designs are notorious for burning filler. This can be evidenced by taking the carto apart and seeing holes burnt through the filler near where the coil is. The early KR808D-1's for example burn very easily. And no, it's not likely to be good to breath in the fumes from that.

[Maz]

[quote name='westcoast2' timestamp='1311254202' post='111124']
[quote]I'd have to say the same as I would to a non-smoker who was asking me about taking up smoking. Don't, it's stupid. [/quote]
Clearly people take up smoking. Given that they will smoke and ignore the advice in the quote above, would it be better to side track them into vaping?
What if they try cigs and (shock, horror) they enjoy them, would 'try vaping' then become an acceptable piece of advice to give to them?[/quote]

That would make them smokers, would it not? I clearly stated "non-smoker", as per thread title.


[quote name='westcoast2' timestamp='1311254202' post='111124']
[quote]the possible risks of vaping pale into insignificance when compared against the known dangers of smoking but for healthy, non-smokers it's an unknown with potentially a considerable risk when compared to a lifetime of breathing only fresh air. [/quote]
Fresh air? City dwelllers clearly do not breath 'Fresh air' since air pollution is a major issue.[/quote]

So now city pollution is my problem? Wow.. OK well taken as a given that city dwellers will breathe a certain amount of pollution, it still doesn't really negate the point I was trying to make. I didn't take the possibility of inhaling asbestos particles from walking past a demolition site either, sorry about that


[quote name='westcoast2' timestamp='1311254202' post='111124']
[quote]Too many non-smokers drawn to vaping will definitely give the antis some very powerful ammunition as they fight to get it banned, "Evil e-cigarettes - non-smokers lured into nicotine addiction hell by sweet dessert flavours shocker!"[/quote]Is it a problem for someone to vape zero nic if they stay there? Maybe some would start to use nic. Is this an issue, since if e-cigs were not available would they try regular cigs anyway? Some may add nic and find it is not for them and continue to use zero nic as they find it enjoyable. Is this a 'problem' for them if that is want they want and choose?[/quote]

They can inhale whatever they like, the concentrated inhalation of a bunch of chemicals classed as "generally regarded as safe" in hitherto untested concentrations and amounts or the steam off a fresh turd, they do indeed have that right as adults and TBH I don't really give a toss.
I think you have me wrong, I don't care if they do it or not but I don't understand the reasoning behind it which is what I was saying and I think it's as stupid a move as starting smoking is. I believe I am entitled to that opinion?


[quote name='westcoast2' timestamp='1311254202' post='111124']
I suggest e-cigs are an adult choice. They are, and this I realise is very much a minority view, not entirely equivalent to smoking although they can be functionaly equivalent.. My view is that they are a choice, for whatever reason, an adult may make, given fair and free information.[/quote]

I agree, hence this part of my post...

[quote name='Maz' timestamp='1311241211' post='111055'] you are adults capable of making your own decisions of course and at the end of the day those decisions don't affect me much[/quote]

[Rusty]

I would never encourage a non-smoker to take up vaping - however, I would not slag one off for doing it either - if they are well informed of the potential possible problems that may be caused in the long term.

Unfortunately we do not know the potential possible problems that maybe caused in the long term, so I would just discourage non-smokers from vaping BUT they would be perfectly in their rights to tell me to F@@K @FF!!!

[Maz]

Aye that they would Rusty..

I just think if you get too many starting on it rather than moving onto it from smoking then tobacco control, the ban or other punitive measures will be on us quite quickly. Smoking will never be banned but anything relatively new and even remotely addictive will be viewed dimly by the powers that be. My view comes from a position of selfishness, I cannot successfully withdraw from nicotine and I don't want to die from smoking so I want vaping to remain legal and easy. I think if the vaping community is seen as actively discouraging non-smokers from taking it up, rather than the opposite then we might be left alone a bit longer.

Adult choice is fine and something that I agree with 100% but if asked by a non smoker if they should start smoking my answer from experience would be a resounding NO! I don't think any of us would encourage a non-smoker to start and I don't see vaping as any different.

Westcoast appears to disagree and he's obviously entitled to his opinion..

Edited by Maz, 22 July 2011 - 08:53 AM.

[westcoast2]

Quote

Westcoast appears to disagree and he's obviously entitled to his opinion.

Maz. I was exploring possibilities, there is a lot of agreement between us. One thing does need clarification though

Maz, on 21 July 2011 - 05:27 PM, said:

westcoast2, on 21 July 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

Quote

I'd have to say the same as I would to a non-smoker who was asking me about taking up smoking. Don't, it's stupid.

Clearly people take up smoking. Given that they will smoke and ignore the advice in the quote above, would it be better to side track them into vaping?
What if they try cigs and (shock, horror) they enjoy them, would 'try vaping' then become an acceptable piece of advice to give to them?

That would make them smokers, would it not? I clearly stated "non-smoker", as per thread title.

It was was rather a clumsy way of asking a simple question. If you read what was written, it did refer to Non-smokers. Here is another way of putting it: Are you suggesting we need to wait until someone has become a smoker to then be able to suggest vaping to them?

[Maz]

westcoast2, on 22 July 2011 - 09:16 AM, said:

It was was rather a clumsy way of asking a simple question. If you read what was written, it did refer to Non-smokers. Here is another way of putting it: Are you suggesting we need to wait until someone has become a smoker to then be able to suggest vaping to them?

Hmm...

I suppose it's not this easy is it?

My knee-jerk reaction is undoubtedly yes for many reasons, vaping is a potential lifesaver for many of us, for me I'm convinced a definite lifesaver as I am showing irreparable damage from smoking. I was told if I stopped the chances are it would not get any worse and I could probably lead a normal life of a normal span, if I carried on I could be looking at emphysema, try as I might (many times) and through much upset and self-loathing I repeatedly failed. In true addict style I'd started kidding myself I was prepared to accept the consequences, then I stumbled into vaping which eventually enabled me to stop burning tobacco. I'm a damn sight healthier three years down the line and feel as fit as I ever did, breathing is easier, inhalers were binned a couple of years ago and all is fine and dandy.

I suppose I am trying to guard this, I don't want to see it taken away from me as I know I will go back to smoking if I cannot vape, this is why I describe my views as selfish.

I see the greatest threat to vaping (MRHA, WHO, ASH & other antis aside) being that it could be argued it's a sanitised route to nicotine addiction. it isn't as 'dirty' as tobacco use, it can taste fantastic, especially the sweet flavours that could be argued will appeal to children, it doesn't stink and lets face it some of the devices just look cool too. If we get a lot of non-smokers getting into it then that's definitely going to play into the hands of the prohibitionists who will (already are) twist the facts and outright lie to get more weight behind their argument. To be honest these groups are powerful and their 'give up nicotine or die' stance frankly scares me shitless as I'll be one of the casualties if they get their way.

On the other hand I wish vaping had been invented 28(ish) years ago because if I'd have started on it or switched a few years after starting smoking I probably wouldn't be in the situation I am in now, nowt like a good dose of hypocrisy every now and again is there?

I dunno Westcoast, I accept it's not an easy call to make but if it's taken up ONLY by existing smokers then it seems less likely to be deemed a problem and more a harm reduction solution as the only other alternative is a proven killer. If it's taken up by a significant number of non-smokers it will be argued that it's a problem, ensnaring people who have managed to avoid smoking and enslaving them to nicotine another way, it's more likely to be somehow controlled that way..

Personally as much as I agree with adult choice I think that yes, we should only be suggesting vaping to smokers but this of course is only my opinion, I'm not trying to become fuhrer of the subject.. Waffle mode off

[Tdol]

Maz has a very good point and I think that TonytheTiger122 is just a troll trying to sow seeds of trouble. The post reads like what it is- someone trying to leave traces of false evidence to demonstrate that mega-cool videos from awesome guys like Grimm Green are encouraging innocent non-smokers to take vaping up. They came in, left that post that shows considerable research and a poor attempt at a guise and didn't return. Look at the fake uneducated language ('chines crap') and the correct spelling of recommended, which many would get wrong. It's not about freedom of choice for non-smokers, but about antis trying to make vaping look dangerous by primitive trolling.
(I did report the post at the time to Crossbow)