25 replies to this topic

[yick]

Dry Burn?

Dry Burn - The act of firing an atomizer for a prolonged period of time at a high voltage setting to get the element red hot. The idea is to burn off excess juice and revive your atomizer.

ProVape engineering does not recommend that users dry burn their atomizers. It is documented that during the dry burn process excess temperatures can be reached that will cause any juice residue to reach cracking temperatures. Once juice reaches cracking temperatures, cancer causing chemicals may be released and can stay in the atomizer when you resume use. It’s not a good idea to have these juices reach high temperatures. In addition, when the atomizer is heated to the point that it reaches these excess temperatures the probability that the atomizer will fail in a short or open mode significantly increases. This can put a lot of unnecessary strain on the internal electronics of your device.

We view the dry burn process as an unnecessary risk for many reasons and do not recommend it.

[zebbydog]

yick, on 07 March 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

Dry Burn?

Dry Burn - The act of firing an atomizer for a prolonged period of time at a high voltage setting to get the element red hot. The idea is to burn off excess juice and revive your atomizer.

ProVape engineering does not recommend that users dry burn their atomizers. It is documented that during the dry burn process excess temperatures can be reached that will cause any juice residue to reach cracking temperatures. Once juice reaches cracking temperatures, cancer causing chemicals may be released and can stay in the atomizer when you resume use. It’s not a good idea to have these juices reach high temperatures. In addition, when the atomizer is heated to the point that it reaches these excess temperatures the probability that the atomizer will fail in a short or open mode significantly increases. This can put a lot of unnecessary strain on the internal electronics of your device.

We view the dry burn process as an unnecessary risk for many reasons and do not recommend it.

Thanks for that I shall cease this pratice forthwith Do you have a link to the original thread?

[Kenny]

Hmmm, Pro Vape is a vendor of course and so maybe would like atty's to last a shorter time or maybe this is just my suspicious nature

I know that juice heated to excessive temperatures and vaped have their dangers but dry burning burns off juice residue which you are not going to vape anyway or am I missing something here?

I only do 2 things to keep my atty clean and that is to blow it out nightly and dry burn if it starts to wimp. This works for me and at the moment I am using a TW atty that is 12 weeks in use at 3mls a day and is as good as day one so am not convinced !!

I would like to see the full article and where this originated from and what tests were taken.

[Cat]

This I would think originates from threads regarding VG. VG can produce Acrolein if heated to temperatures over 280 degrees. A dry atomiser has been recorded to reach temperatures of 230 degrees, and I am talking of standard atties here, as these points were raised almost 2 years ago. So excessive dry burning of an atty that has had VG through it could in theory produce Acrolein, although it would have to reach 280 degrees to do so, which is a great deal higher than those tests showed.

Im not aware of any other tests, which doesnt mean they have not been done.

Also, it must reduce the life of an atomiser, hence my penny pinching attitude has always been ..dont do it !

[DaveK]

"This can put a lot of unnecessary strain on the internal electronics of your device".

I can't help wondering whether this is some kind of defence against all of those E8 error messages. Or am I being too cynical?

[PapaLazarou]

The thought hadn't crossed my mind at all Dave

[yick]

some good points raised here

Edited by yick, 07 March 2011 - 06:36 PM.

[yick]

zebbydog, on 07 March 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:

yick, on 07 March 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

Dry Burn?

Dry Burn - The act of firing an atomizer for a prolonged period of time at a high voltage setting to get the element red hot. The idea is to burn off excess juice and revive your atomizer.

ProVape engineering does not recommend that users dry burn their atomizers. It is documented that during the dry burn process excess temperatures can be reached that will cause any juice residue to reach cracking temperatures. Once juice reaches cracking temperatures, cancer causing chemicals may be released and can stay in the atomizer when you resume use. It’s not a good idea to have these juices reach high temperatures. In addition, when the atomizer is heated to the point that it reaches these excess temperatures the probability that the atomizer will fail in a short or open mode significantly increases. This can put a lot of unnecessary strain on the internal electronics of your device.

We view the dry burn process as an unnecessary risk for many reasons and do not recommend it.

Thanks for that I shall cease this pratice forthwith Do you have a link to the original thread?

there you go m8 My link

[Kenny]

yick, on 07 March 2011 - 06:35 PM, said:

zebbydog, on 07 March 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:

yick, on 07 March 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

Dry Burn?

Dry Burn - The act of firing an atomizer for a prolonged period of time at a high voltage setting to get the element red hot. The idea is to burn off excess juice and revive your atomizer.

ProVape engineering does not recommend that users dry burn their atomizers. It is documented that during the dry burn process excess temperatures can be reached that will cause any juice residue to reach cracking temperatures. Once juice reaches cracking temperatures, cancer causing chemicals may be released and can stay in the atomizer when you resume use. It’s not a good idea to have these juices reach high temperatures. In addition, when the atomizer is heated to the point that it reaches these excess temperatures the probability that the atomizer will fail in a short or open mode significantly increases. This can put a lot of unnecessary strain on the internal electronics of your device.

We view the dry burn process as an unnecessary risk for many reasons and do not recommend it.

Thanks for that I shall cease this pratice forthwith Do you have a link to the original thread?

there you go m8 My link

Thanks for the link.

It will be interesting to see the source response from ProVape.

[yick]

Kenny, on 07 March 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

yick, on 07 March 2011 - 06:35 PM, said:

zebbydog, on 07 March 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:

yick, on 07 March 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

Dry Burn?

Dry Burn - The act of firing an atomizer for a prolonged period of time at a high voltage setting to get the element red hot. The idea is to burn off excess juice and revive your atomizer.

ProVape engineering does not recommend that users dry burn their atomizers. It is documented that during the dry burn process excess temperatures can be reached that will cause any juice residue to reach cracking temperatures. Once juice reaches cracking temperatures, cancer causing chemicals may be released and can stay in the atomizer when you resume use. It’s not a good idea to have these juices reach high temperatures. In addition, when the atomizer is heated to the point that it reaches these excess temperatures the probability that the atomizer will fail in a short or open mode significantly increases. This can put a lot of unnecessary strain on the internal electronics of your device.

We view the dry burn process as an unnecessary risk for many reasons and do not recommend it.

Thanks for that I shall cease this pratice forthwith Do you have a link to the original thread?

there you go m8 My link

Thanks for the link.

It will be interesting to see the source response from ProVape.

Yes i agree m8

[zebbydog]

DaveK, on 07 March 2011 - 04:53 PM, said:

"This can put a lot of unnecessary strain on the internal electronics of your device".

I can't help wondering whether this is some kind of defence against all of those E8 error messages. Or am I being too cynical?

It crossed my mind. Lets face it if there is a risk to an under warranty device. Then you wont want your customers doing it as you will have to repair it under warranty.

[DaveK]

So it isn't just me being cynical then!

[zebbydog]

DaveK, on 07 March 2011 - 07:45 PM, said:

So it isn't just me being cynical then!

Na, I dont know if cynical is the right word, but when I was dry burning it also crossed my mind "should I be doing this?"

[garrydibley]

LOL I think it might be more to do with the error message.
Extended dry burns would cause the components to heat beyond the thermal cut out point of the booster.
It would cut out and possibly cause the error message.
Or heat the atty to a point where it shorts and you get the short protection kick in, another error message etc.
The provari booster has all the standard safety features of any regulator, but the bonus of identifying and displaying the error E whatever.

Like any electronic component if you constantly push it beyond it's operating limits it will eventually fail, safety cut out or not.

Also how do they know what is released after the cracking point, as they say.
Rather a bold statement to make.

I'm not knocking the provari in any way with this post just my thoughts.

Edited by garrydibley, 08 March 2011 - 03:41 PM.

[Toby]

yick, on 07 March 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

Once juice reaches cracking temperatures, cancer causing chemicals may be released and can stay in the atomizer when you resume use.

I think this raises broader questions as to whether the carbon deposits (or whatever they are), left on the coil after an atomiser has been used for some time, can produce carcinogens or not.. whether dry-burnt or not...

All the tests on e-cigs, as to whether they produce carcinogens, have been using new atomisers, I think.. and they didn't find any (significant) amounts...

[Trog]

the claimed temperatures of 230 degrees are bollocks cat.. i have never liked HV or LR atomizer for this simple reason..

dry burns will happen intentional or not.. the dangers of too hot liquid used to come up often.. this was long before LR and HV hit the scene..

check the colour chart for how hot an atomizer heater coil can get..

http://www.tpub.com/...ss/14250_29.htm

at four volts a normal (not LR) RN4075 heater coil will glow cherry red..

trog

ps.. that is over 600 C.. with more volts or an LR atomizer the coil could well hit 1000 C.. be scared or dont be scared its up to you.. and i dont like HV or LR atomizers you can guess at the reasons why..

more parade pissing from your favourite parade pisser.. he he he

Edited by Trog, 09 March 2011 - 05:34 PM.

[googled]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrolein for those wanting more information. Acrolein isn't a carcinogen according to that entry, it's also highly irritating to the eyes, I've never had any stinging or irritation from vapour. Personally I'm not concerned, I exposed my lungs to Acrolein fo 27 years, but that doesnt mean you shouldn't be.

Edited by googled, 09 March 2011 - 09:50 PM.

[Trog]

googled, on 09 March 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrolein for those wanting more information. Acrolein isn't a carcinogen according to that entry, it's also highly irritating to the eyes, I've never had any stinging or irritation from vapour. Personally I'm not concerned, I exposed my lungs to Acrolein fo 27 years, but that doesnt mean you shouldn't be.

When glycerol is heated to 280 °C, it decomposes into acrolein.

what i dont think is in doubt.. we are hitting temperatures well in excess of those needed to create this stuff.. the original e cigs didnt but the ones we have now do..

should we care.. i do but i know my words fall on deaf ears.. the heat and the wattage will keep going up irrespective of what i say..

trog

[Crundy]

Worth investigating. Is there any way of getting a lab to analyse vapour from an old atomiser and determine the levels of acrolein to see if they are significant enough to cause concern?

Edit: Checked the WP article:

Quote

It has a piercing, disagreeable, acrid smell similar to that of burning fat.

Acrolein is a severe pulmonary irritant and lachrymatory agent

Wouldn't we have noticed the smell, taste or irritant effect if it was produced in a significant amount?

Edited by Crundy, 14 March 2011 - 03:39 PM.

[Kenny]

Trog, on 09 March 2011 - 11:25 PM, said:

googled, on 09 March 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrolein for those wanting more information. Acrolein isn't a carcinogen according to that entry, it's also highly irritating to the eyes, I've never had any stinging or irritation from vapour. Personally I'm not concerned, I exposed my lungs to Acrolein fo 27 years, but that doesnt mean you shouldn't be.

When glycerol is heated to 280 °C, it decomposes into acrolein.

what i dont think is in doubt.. we are hitting temperatures well in excess of those needed to create this stuff.. the original e cigs didnt but the ones we have now do..

should we care.. i do but i know my words fall on deaf ears.. the heat and the wattage will keep going up irrespective of what i say..

trog

Not all ears are deaf to advice Trog but some don't care to admit it.